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The Buzz Congregation
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poxer
Layman
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Wednesday April 6th, 2005 18:39 Post subject: Im buyin a new souncard, in the 200$-300$, suggestions? |
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yep time for a new soundcard, so what should i get, my price range is 200 - 300 bones, i could just go down to worstBuy and pick up a soundblaster audigy with a box (ok with buzz?), or there is alot of other cards from musicians friend, none of which i know anything about, suggestions??  |
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e-client
Deacon
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 106
Location: zürich CH
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| Posted: Wednesday April 6th, 2005 18:56 Post subject: |
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this might be good... its what i have on my old pc, and it works perfect... but i have the 5.1 version, so dunno about this one.... muaaahahahahahahaha
http://www.stegcomputer.ch/details.asp?prodid=cre-71-oem
edit:
ok, yeah, i was of no help... but i wouldnt be of any help anyway. since as long as the thing does produce sound, its good for me. quality? come on, buzz is all internal stuff, so i dont care about the output i hear, but about the output it produces... latency? -> kxdrivers or any asio stuff does well...
depends a bit on what exactly do you want to do... need lots inputs? need lots of outputs? is stereo fine? buzz only for production? or live? what what WHAAT???
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poxer
Layman
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Wednesday April 6th, 2005 19:08 Post subject: well |
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what im looking for is low lat input, my output is fine right now , but i experince a delay when for example i use a guitar or mic as a input to buzz...
thx for the help keep it comin |
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z_tetha
Cardinal
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 921
Location: synthesis
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| Posted: Wednesday April 6th, 2005 19:26 Post subject: |
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| what kind of soundcard do you have at the moment? |
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gsa
Layman
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 3
Location: Orenburg, Russia
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| Posted: Wednesday April 6th, 2005 21:07 Post subject: |
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Ok, here is my 2 cents:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile192-main.html
Looks more promising than even Audigy 2. 
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but i experince a delay when for example i use a guitar or mic as a input to buzz... |
If you already have Live!, you should install kx drivers and use polac asio + polac i/o. |
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Paul Eye
Monk
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 406
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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| Posted: Wednesday April 6th, 2005 21:47 Post subject: |
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Stay far far away from Creative.
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btd
Cardinal
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 765
Location: York, UK
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| Posted: Wednesday April 6th, 2005 22:27 Post subject: |
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| Paul Eye wrote: | | Stay far far away from Creative. |
I wondered how long it would take
Yeah... M-Audio is probably the name to look for. I like Terratec cards too. I've got a Terratec DMX 6fire 2496, ASIO drivers give low enough latency for guitar effects and that drivebay-mounted breakout box sure is handy, but it's at the low end of your budget so you can probably afford better. |
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e-client
Deacon
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 106
Location: zürich CH
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| Posted: Wednesday April 6th, 2005 23:19 Post subject: |
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btw... for if you didnt notice...
i was kidding with the creative... 
i would recommend to stay away too... its just that -I- dont need something better so far... you're working with input and stuff, so dont even fuckin consider -ANY- creative... m-audio is the way to go, if it has to be good, but good priced...
greetings...
rb
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usr
Pope
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 1156
Location: nuremberg, franconia, germany, europe
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| Posted: Thursday April 7th, 2005 2:07 Post subject: |
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I have a terratech and an sblive i got for free.
sometimes i switch winamp output to the sblive, for reasons like using asio on the 6fire at the same time, or going into hibernate while the music is playing.
no surprise i forget to switch back to the real sound card from time to time.
but guess what, after a while i will listen to some song in winamp, and think something like "hey, why does the music sound so bad today?" and whenever i think that, i find the sound routed through the sblive.
now my ears are far far far away from being golden, silver or some of the more valuable plastics, but it seems like i can hear a difference even without doing the switch-A/switch-B comparison.
Might be that my sblive has some broken parts, might be the forced resampling to 48 khz, but no matter what people will tell you about how their sb runs fine with kxdrivers, i would never buy one of those things, except maybe as a secondary card for gaming (though recently i even switched to the 6fire for some games as well, trading hardware eax for crisp quality)
edit: hey, that m-audio is advertized for having 64 bit drivers as well, not that 64 bit would give any real advantage before the ram revolution comes, but one day you _will_ want to switch, and a good sound card should be much more a long term investment than, say, a graphics card which will be outdated faster than you can plug it in.
i have the same card as ed, and i'm afraid that one will never get 64 bit drivers. but the front side module is really convenient, i would never switch to a card without something similar, at least not without a very very good reason (like needing a heap of inputs for hd recording a whole band or stuff like that).
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Mirfus
Monk
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 381
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Thursday April 7th, 2005 9:19 Post subject: |
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| usr wrote: | | I have a terratech and an sblive i got for free. |
Could you point out the differences between the terratech and audigy 2 (if the audigy 2 is the creative one with the front panel). They look extremely similar? |
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btd
Cardinal
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 765
Location: York, UK
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| Posted: Thursday April 7th, 2005 11:42 Post subject: |
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| Mirfus wrote: | | Could you point out the differences between the terratech and audigy 2 (if the audigy 2 is the creative one with the front panel). They look extremely similar? |
http://www20.tomshardware.com/consumer/20020115/index.html
Don't know what the difference is between Audigy Platinum and Audigy 2. |
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Mirfus
Monk
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 381
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Thursday April 7th, 2005 12:56 Post subject: |
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Hmm, see when I as younger I always wanted an Audigy with the front rack cos it seemed to have an unending variety of ins and outs.
Now I've started making music and I've been warned about creative labs soundcards many times, and of course I have learnt the existence of the 6fire.
I'd love a 6fire but at the same rate something tells me to refrain...
It just seems that as there is so much going on within cards like the terratech, it may not perform as well as a simpler card.
*shrugs* I dunno. Not in a real rush to stop using onboard sound anyway. it does the job. Just shit at recording in. |
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wayfinder
my afro is puffy what are you talking about
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 1605
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Thursday April 7th, 2005 18:09 Post subject: |
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| usr wrote: | I have a terratech and an sblive i got for free.
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Haha, it's just the other way around here! I got an sblive! and a terratec ews 88 mt i got for free  My Terratec has substandard drivers, unfortunately, but with the superior d/a changers and 8 ins, 8 outs, it's the vastly better card.
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Paul Eye
Monk
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 406
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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| Posted: Thursday April 7th, 2005 20:07 Post subject: |
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| wayfinder wrote: | | My Terratec has substandard drivers |
In which way that is? I mean, I've been thinking of getting one of these once I find myself having enough money to get one. However...if it has crap drivers, I might reconsider...
edit: however...that Audiophile 192 looks damn promising aswell...
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usr
Pope
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 1156
Location: nuremberg, franconia, germany, europe
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| Posted: Thursday April 7th, 2005 20:40 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It just seems that as there is so much going on within cards like the terratech, it may not perform as well as a simpler card. |
how would that make sense? I don't even understand what you mean with "much going on". The 6fire is a very straight forward design, no fancy gaming FX chip, just the trusty old envy24 chip (the same as in all the 24/96 cards from m-audio etc, only creative and maybe echo don't use that chip), and the kind of converters that you would expect at the pricing.
Can't judge about "substandard drivers", i think the main driver problems that still chase terratech cards through the forums were in the age of pre-pci isa-soundcards. It does the job, only sometimes the driver will lock when an ASIO app (buzz) crashes. Sometimes reinitializing with a different buzz->asio bridge helps, sometimes not. Dunno how other drivers behave in such a situation.
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Mirfus
Monk
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 381
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Friday April 8th, 2005 9:01 Post subject: |
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 Wonderful. I have no reason to worry now. Don't get me wrong I'm sure it is an excellent card. Just had my doubts, you've helped clear them up. Cheers. |
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mute
Angel
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 3361
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| Posted: Friday April 8th, 2005 13:54 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I have a terratech and an sblive i got for free.
sometimes i switch winamp output to the sblive, for reasons like using asio on the 6fire at the same time, or going into hibernate while the music is playing.
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I have an maudio delta 410 that I bought a couple years ago and a sblive value! i got for free (actually, i have a couple of these).
both the live! and the 410 are in my computer.. the live! is set to my primary device so that any regular audio program or video game that doesnt let me choose my device will goto the sblive.
I never use my ASIO card for the regular apps like winamp, etc.
erm. of course all this goes in/out my mixer...
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Paul Eye
Monk
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
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Location: Helsinki, Finland
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| Posted: Friday April 8th, 2005 14:17 Post subject: |
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| mute wrote: | | I never use my ASIO card for the regular apps like winamp, etc. |
Why not?
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wayfinder
my afro is puffy what are you talking about
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 1605
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Friday April 8th, 2005 21:32 Post subject: |
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Substandard as in: Freaky control panel that doesn't want to do what I want it to do, for example it doesn't like when I adjust the volume, I have to do that in the program, or in the windows mixer. It sometimes stops putting out any sound and has to be recalibrated. The asio panel is next to useless. it's not possible to record "what you hear". the list goes on. The drivers haven't been updated in years, the product is discontinued.
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mute
Angel
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 3361
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| Posted: Saturday April 9th, 2005 3:25 Post subject: |
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| Paul Eye wrote: | | mute wrote: | | I never use my ASIO card for the regular apps like winamp, etc. |
Why not? |
for games,.. not all games act happy w/ asio. for winamp.. the asio driver tends to be buggy at times, ex: the progress slider will stop working or pausing / buffering for no reason. I had this problem w/ winamps asio out for my old emagic asio card too.. Other apps just have poor or no asio support, specially ones that are beta/alpha and im testing or whatever.
Also, some apps don't provide a duplex asio driver so it can tie up a channel .. or they only offer out on all channels instead of assigned ones, etc..
You can use asio for all of these things, i just prefer not to because of personal experiences some of which has to do with my onboard video card. Alot of ppl do use asio and nothing, so dont nessicarily take my experience. It's just the way I work. I like having dual cards for multiple reasons.
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Xenobioz
Archbishop
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 579
Location: Sihanoukville Cambodia
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| Posted: Saturday April 9th, 2005 11:06 Post subject: |
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| mute wrote: | | Paul Eye wrote: | | mute wrote: | | I never use my ASIO card for the regular apps like winamp, etc. |
Why not? |
for games,.. not all games act happy w/ asio. for winamp.. the asio driver tends to be buggy at times, ex: the progress slider will stop working or pausing / buffering for no reason. I had this problem w/ winamps asio out for my old emagic asio card too.. Other apps just have poor or no asio support, specially ones that are beta/alpha and im testing or whatever.
Also, some apps don't provide a duplex asio driver so it can tie up a channel .. or they only offer out on all channels instead of assigned ones, etc..
You can use asio for all of these things, i just prefer not to because of personal experiences some of which has to do with my onboard video card. Alot of ppl do use asio and nothing, so dont nessicarily take my experience. It's just the way I work. I like having dual cards for multiple reasons. |
Doesnt the Delta 410 support DirectX?
This made me wonder if I should buy a M-audio card, but then I saw at their site that the other cards did support it.
So If you dont care about EAX, could you then use an Audiophile 2496 for gaming and listening to music.
Ofcourse the optimal thing for med would be a card with EAX and midi in, with 2 outs(one for computer spekaers and one for Stereo System.)and atleast 1 in.
But are the SB platinum cards the only ones, with all that?
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usr
Pope
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 1156
Location: nuremberg, franconia, germany, europe
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| Posted: Saturday April 9th, 2005 19:55 Post subject: |
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i don't use any asio for winamp either, just the trusty old out_wave.dll: easy to switch between cards, but sadly no channel selection. regular waveout does the byte-sending as good as asio, only the latency sucks but i don't need that with winamp. and the terratec sounds so much better than my sblive.
--
i have some "kb 5.1 channel output" thing that allows me to use those additional outs for one instance of winamp, and the regular (which are routed to the headphone jack - guess now you see what i'm about to do) for a second instance, but that has a small bug and tends to cut off the last seconds of a song :/
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mute
Angel
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 3361
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| Posted: Sunday April 10th, 2005 1:10 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Doesnt the Delta 410 support DirectX?
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Yes, but this is a tricky question and it regards all ASIO devices. ASIO is ASIO. Some DX interfaces supplied by applications will let u treat an ASIO channel as a regular soundcard interface in their DX config. Some won't.
Good applications, commerical applications, well supported applications will. Lots of freeware and old shit won't.
ex: You can't choose a DX driver as your system's default audio device, you can only choose the card/interface itself. So if a program only works on the system's default device, chances are it has no dx config or asio support.. so without a regular non-asio card, sb compatible, whatever.. you'd be kinda annoyed tryin to get it to work.
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So If you dont care about EAX
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I hate EAX! Ew.  must...have...pure..audio... 
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could you then use an Audiophile 2496 for gaming and listening to music.
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yeah, games and media players always have good device options.
| Quote: | | But are the SB platinum cards the only ones, with all that? |
If I had a sblive breakout box, the value version would almost be identical. I can't remember the differences anymore.. not really sure there are any other than the # of available ins and outs, and the breakout box. case in point, a friend of mine had a platinum once and it died on him .. so he bought a value off of ebay and connected his breakout box to it and there u go.
I don't use any of the sblive features though really. I just find it to be a very reliable general purpose card. ASIO is great, but you will run into issues on occassion with certain applications (but not very often). But this makes sense and its completely understandable.
Don't be mistaken though. These aren't m-audio issues, they're ASIO issues.
If I had to choose, and have only 1 card in my system it would definitly be my 410. But since I don't have to choose, I want both.
mine has 6.1, 7.1, cross over and positional (front, center, rear surrounds, surrounds etc.) speaker frequency cutoff ranges. Assignable subchannel, inversion, speaker placement (by ft) + all kinds of good surround shit I'll probably never use ;] Or maybe I might. Who knows. I do have a sony stereo w/ 5.1 I could hook it up to for giggles. 
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usr
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Joined: 12 Aug 2004
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Location: nuremberg, franconia, germany, europe
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| Posted: Sunday April 10th, 2005 2:09 Post subject: |
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so are you telling us that the m-audio fails with apps that don't support asio?
"ASIO is ASIO" <- yeah, it's a driver interface thing. if an app talks to the sound card over the regular MM or DX interface provided by the windows driver it won't even notice that the card also supports asio, unless the card supports _only_ asio, in that case you'd be in trouble with anything but real music software.
How the ASIO and the windows interfaces coexist seems to vary from card to card, the 6fire for example will lock out all windows interfaces when an asio app is runnung to give that full priority access to the hardware device.
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mute
Angel
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 3361
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| Posted: Sunday April 10th, 2005 6:35 Post subject: |
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| usr wrote: | so are you telling us that the m-audio fails with apps that don't support asio?
"ASIO is ASIO" <- yeah, it's a driver interface thing. if an app talks to the sound card over the regular MM or DX interface provided by the windows driver it won't even notice that the card also supports asio, unless the card supports _only_ asio, in that case you'd be in trouble with anything but real music software.
How the ASIO and the windows interfaces coexist seems to vary from card to card, the 6fire for example will lock out all windows interfaces when an asio app is runnung to give that full priority access to the hardware device. |
thats basically what i was tryin to get across really. it won't fail. the only exception i'm talkin about really (and its taken far too long to explain, i blame myself... i can be way too wordy) is that on some applications that do not allow you to specify a device and strictly use the windows 'preferred device'. Even then tho it usually works.., all the ports are listed as being selectable for being a preferred device.
the reasons i dont use asio for alot of regular, non-musical or editing stuff are trivial really. like the crappy winamp thing we were talkin about earlier. i've had 3 asio cards up to this point (all different brands) and i've found that there's typically some jitter style problems when using an asio device with apps like winamp, powerdvd, etc. but its really picky shit. my best experience by far has been with m-audio. their drivers rock, their customer support is pretty quick on responses, they have regular updates, and listen to the consensus of user wishlist / bug reporting. they also have a driver download feature that alot of h/w companies skip out on which is making experimental/beta/etc. drivers available for those that like to check every driver in the world that the company has to find out which one has the features or behaves the best on their specific system.
another reason is i don't want to mess with levels or channel settings that i've pretty much got how i want them for my music apps .. etc., and whatnot.
umn,. yeah. again. i can get wordy. this is really silly. when it comes down to it, i stand by m-audio and recommend them to everyone. you can't beat the quality, support, and features. imo. i've never used any of the usb versions though. i've got hands on experience w/ PCI and Firewire versions. their console and mixer panels are really slick too. you can reroute ports, all kinds of shit.
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usr
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Joined: 12 Aug 2004
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Location: nuremberg, franconia, germany, europe
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| Posted: Sunday April 10th, 2005 17:16 Post subject: |
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never had a problem running non-asio apps with an asio enabled card. but then, i don't have any hands-on experience with m-audio at all ;-)
(oh wait, i once installed a delta-44 and it felt really bad, but the whole system was very much broken, nothing would have felt stable in that environment)
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uksi
Believer
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
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Location: Waltham, MA
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| Posted: Sunday April 10th, 2005 18:07 Post subject: |
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what about this Tascam US122 unit.. I just saw this yesterday. $200 ...
2 XLR/line-level inputs
2 line-level outputs w/ level control
headphone output w/ level control
self-powered via USB
asio, wdm
MIDI I/O
This is nice for people w/ laptops... you can hook it up to your desktop or laptop, no external power adapter required.
but it seems to have quite a few complaints about not working w/ XP SP2 and latency is high (21ms for output?) |
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uksi
Believer
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Waltham, MA
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| Posted: Sunday April 10th, 2005 18:11 Post subject: |
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i myself am looking at the m-audio transit: 24/96 1-channel input, 1-channel output. Looks nice, compact. Good for recording mixes and composing stuff w/ Buzz. I already have the Echo Indigo (the out-of-production 1-channel-output version), which I use only for listening to music at work, because the wireless card on my home laptop interferes w/ the sound too much.
(and yep, i'm all laptop-based, so hence all products i'm looking at are usb or pcmcia) |
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mute
Angel
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 3361
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| Posted: Monday April 11th, 2005 1:11 Post subject: |
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| usr wrote: | | never had a problem running non-asio apps with an asio enabled card. |
*cough* bullshit *cough*
of course, nothing serious... but no problems? i wont believe this even if you say it standing on your head and tickle elekt's nose with your toes.
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but then, i don't have any hands-on experience with m-audio at all |
i'm almost willing to bet my hands that maudio drivers and features runs circles around your terratech  OOOOOooh yeah, i went there!
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(but the whole system was very much broken, nothing would have felt stable in that environment)
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then shutup!
hahahahaha. ok seriously tho. this has become so pointless. i'm goin to bow out of the thread
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usr
Pope
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
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Location: nuremberg, franconia, germany, europe
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| Posted: Monday April 11th, 2005 2:21 Post subject: |
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so you are implying that m-audio makes substandard non-asio drivers, fine
can i stop tickling elekt's nose now?
dunno how other drivers handle this, but the terratec one just deactivates the regular driver when asio is activated, and when asio is not active - well then there's no asio. don't see why there should be any interference - except for the case when a crashing asio app does not properly deactivate asio.
*does some other funny things, some involving elekt some not*
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mute
Angel
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| Posted: Tuesday April 12th, 2005 4:04 Post subject: |
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| usr wrote: | | so you are implying that m-audio makes substandard non-asio drivers, fine |
i wasnt saying that at all! cut it out!! 
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Xenobioz
Archbishop
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
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Location: Sihanoukville Cambodia
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| Posted: Monday April 25th, 2005 15:41 Post subject: |
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Hmm, I have a problem with the people that I bought my computer from.
They refuse to put in my old SBlive platinum.
The moderboard is an ASUS A8N-SLI-DLX
I had two and both broke. The first one worked for a while and then got no signal to monitor.
The second one would always when entering windows, make an annoying constant piiiip.(peeeeep, blip?) and Reboot or get a bluescreen.
Then they did something so it was possible to enter window, but every reboot it would freeze with no signal to monitor. Sometimes also freezing at post with picture.
They said my SB was warm and removed it but the problem remained. They still blame the problems on my SB live.
And they even refuse to install it on some other motherboard.
They have made a lots of false conclusions to what the problem might could be and they were always wrong.
The SB is back in my old computer now and running just fine.
Anyway, whats your oppinion? Can the SBlive really destroy a mobo if the mobo has no faults in itself already?
It shouldnt right?
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btd
Cardinal
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 765
Location: York, UK
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| Posted: Monday April 25th, 2005 17:29 Post subject: |
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| Xenobioz wrote: | Anyway, whats your oppinion? Can the SBlive really destroy a mobo if the mobo has no faults in itself already?
It shouldnt right? |
Seems very unlikely, but I spose anything's possible (I had an old mobo where one of the PCI slots got fried by a cheap soundcard, but it had no effect whatsoever on the rest of the system --- that mobo was finally killed by the internal PC speaker of all things).
Did you have the same graphics card in both mobos? Because the first thing I'd be doing with those symptoms is trying a different one. Maybe the motherboard's not even the problem. |
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elekt
Choir Girl
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Monday April 25th, 2005 17:32 Post subject: |
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| i was sneezing earlier today. |
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Xenobioz
Archbishop
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 579
Location: Sihanoukville Cambodia
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| Posted: Monday April 25th, 2005 17:53 Post subject: |
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| btd wrote: |
Seems very unlikely, but I spose anything's possible (I had an old mobo where one of the PCI slots got fried by a cheap soundcard, but it had no effect whatsoever on the rest of the system --- that mobo was finally killed by the internal PC speaker of all things).
Did you have the same graphics card in both mobos? Because the first thing I'd be doing with those symptoms is trying a different one. Maybe the motherboard's not even the problem. |
Okey, thats what I thought.
Yes I had the same graphics card.
Also the PSU might be the problem, Ive read about lots of people with that problem. The ASUS A8N-SLI DLX seems to need a lot of power.
But they never tried another PSU in the shop.
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usr
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Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 1156
Location: nuremberg, franconia, germany, europe
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| Posted: Monday April 25th, 2005 18:22 Post subject: |
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then it could even be that both mobos are in fact still in perfect working condition, different boards get the energy over different voltage channels, so if a psu is particulary strong on one voltage but the mobo wants everything on another line then all the potential of the psu goes to waste.
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